Help me! Springfield Armory Saint vs Sig Sauer M400 Tread : r/ar15 - reddit Sig Sauer. Caleb Giddings, Marketing Manager at Taurus, introduces the all-new TaurusTX 22 Compact. Springfield Saint Victor Rifles | Palmetto State Armory Compare. This five-position brace was specifically designed for PDW-sized guns and only hangs 4 inches off the back of the receiver when fully collapsed. Not as expensive as their Carbon Fiber wrapped Barrel model, but probably my most costly AR15 to date. Sounds like an excuse to get another can like a Dead Air Sandman-S. +1 this is what I ordered for my Rattler. Two of the loads were subsonic; Sigs 220-grain OTMs clustered into 0.7 inches while Lehigh Defenses 194-grain Maximum Expansion (ME) rounds created a 1-inch group. I was really happy . models. But in spite of all that, I find myself wanting one, a lot. 5.56 Rattler? | SIG Talk So much so that we almost took to calling it a three-stage trigger. Whereas releasing the bolt is aided by the larger platform, setting the lock means pressing down on the smaller end. The first was the SilencerCo Omega 9K, which is only 4.7 inches long and weighs 7.2 ounces. Bought separately, the SCW (with this H3 buffer) retails for $590. What surprised me as much as the complete reliability was how soft-shooting the PDW was. PDWs in the modern era see most use with government security details where large rifles are not needed. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY - SAINT 16" 5.56 BRAVO CO MLOK HANDGUARD, Sig Sauer M400 Tread .223/5.56 Semi-Automatic 30rd 16". Barrel-twist rate was 1:8. (Tie) LWRC Smg-45 ($3k?fuck!) As for Springfields PDW, it is an AR, so it has familiar controls. It has a pretty decent barrel and is reliable, so I can recommend it as a solid choice. The new RIA 5.0 Sporting Pistol from Rock Island Armory features a patented RVS Recoil system that maximizes barrel mass and linear movement to give shooters super soft recoil. The Tread was $799.00 and the Saint was $849.00. HKs MP7 has never been available in any commercial form. MSRP: $2,720; sigsauer.com. But its really a 100-yard rifle with supersonic ammunition. As a result of this solicitation, SIG Sauer designed the MCX Rattler, and Maxim Defense came out with the PDX. In fact, it wasnt that long ago that SIG was in a similar position. Minuteman. Magazine release from the left side was a little easier if pressure was applied more toward the rearward edge than over the center of the button. With the brace collapsed, it is just 18.75 inches long. From the 100-yard line, the Saint delivered 1.0-inch five-shot groups with the Black Hills 60-grain V-Max, 69-grain OTM rounds, and the 77-grain TMK ammunition. then they had the new CZ 75 Tactical Sport 2 Blue in $1,699 . You are using an out of date browser. The A-zone measured 11 inches tall and about 5.75 inches wide. The metal loop at the heel of buttplate was free swinging. Both of them are chambered in uncommon, proprietary bottleneck cartridges, the 5.7x28mm and 4.6x30mm, respectively. JavaScript is disabled. Furthermore, Sig has a much higher percentage of parts and weapons produced in house, which allows them to control quality much more closely, where as Springfield assembles and builds only a fraction of their product line, AFAIK. Concerning these small-but-potent arms, they're pretty dang slick in 5.56 NATO, but sing when chambered 300 Blackout. So goes the AR-556 line of ARs. Given the paperwork and money you spent on the can, is it worth testing twist-rates theories yourself? The idea was to replace 9mm submachine guns for support troops and special operations units with something more powerful that wasnt a full-sized, Tactical Life Gun Magazine: Gun news, gun reviews and gun magazines for gun enthusiasts, military and law enforcement, You use of this website constitutes and manifests your acceptance of our, ENTER TO WIN > Free Gun Friday for your chance to WIN the SIG Sauer P320 AXG Legion and Black Hills HoneyBadger Ammo, Anderson Manufacturing Kiger-9c Pro: Upgrades and EDC Ready, Stow it and Go: The Volquartsen 22 LR VT2 Takedown Rifle. Here are my personal Pros & Cons of the Saint Victor (FEATURELESS, CA Compliant version) Pros: - Comes with basic flip-up sights ready to go out of box - Full length M-Lok rail slots (TREAD seems to stop 8/10 of the way from the front) - Lighter Cons: - $1400+tax - 2 port MB rather than M400's 3 port (any difference in felt recoil?) I wrote SilencerCo another letter, under a different email. Reader's Choice: Best AR-15 (Stock or Factory Model) - The Firearm Blog Detent at the safety was heavy and secure without any rough edges. In use, it seemed to all but disappear. You got the CZ shadow 2 orange is it 9mm or 40 cal. Please give me your thoughts and opinions! A light, compact AR pistol in the right caliber is easy to carry for long distances . It's an entry level rifle that's pretty much designed to sell accessories. This short barrel has a 1-in-5-inch twist rate optimized for heavy bullets, and its paired with an adjustable gas block so you can run the gun with a suppressor, for example. MSRP: $949; ruger.com. [Review] Sig Sauer MCX Rattler PCB .300 BLK: Ultimate Backpack Gun Im looking eventually for a Tread 400 (maybe this one?). Type: Semi-Auto Pistol. The 300 rattler was designed to be suppressed. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Eventually, ammo manufacturers answered the call, and now dozens offer 300 Blackout loads for a variety of uses. AR-15 Carbines for Less Than $1300: The Winner is a Saint Meet the all-new Taurus Judge Executive Grade, a revolver featuring a hand-polished satin finish, presentation-grade wood grips, a brass rod front sight and an exceptional hand-tuned trigger. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Looking past the outdated grip and buttstock, this is a very good rifle that deserved a much better trigger. FN sells a 16-inch-barreled carbine version of the P90, the PS90, but it looks ugly and awkward and is far from compact. The Springfield Armory SAINT Line - The Armory Life Compare. Sig Sauer New M400 Tread Snakebite SE 5.56 - The Armory Life Following the success of its initial collaboration with Vertx, Premier Body Armor announces its continued partnership. I've handled a Saint, and I would definitely go with the Sig. Essentially it boils down to performance and suppressibility. I really like the trigger in the Saint but the 716i has really good features too. ". Barrel-twist rate was 1:8. Springfield Saint AR-15 [Review] - Pew Pew Tactical A Magpul dual split aperture flip-up rear sight was attached to the top rail that ran the length of the receiver. There was another location for a QD sling from either side at the rear of the receiver just below where the buffer tube was attached. With the Saint Edge series of ARs, you get nicely sculpted lower receivers machined from billet aluminum. I actually sold my Sig m400 patrol 5.56 , And My Sig P320 . Springfield has made some shitty moves in the past but they make an amazing AR. The recoil was manageable with the hottest loads, and it was a pleasure to shoot with subsonics. Although the drill was shot cold, we couldnt help but be more warmed up by the time we reached the third gun. Extraordinary accuracy. The aluminum hanguard is 6 inches long and has M-LOK attachment slots. The PDW with the Hate Brake produced far less flash and noise than a 16-inch-barreled AR equipped with a traditional muzzlebrake. A staff member recently paid $2300 for a complete AR-15 carbine without regret. View Product. Facing off in a handgun challenge featuring the smallest professional-grade enclosed red dot sight on the market, Eric and Tom put the Acro P-2 to the distance test by doing a walk-back challenge. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The 300 rattler was designed to be suppressed. The combination of the mid-length gas system and the heavy buffer make a Saint very soft shooting. Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. While the plastic handguard and the buttstock showed a little bit of play, fit and function of the more important parts of the M400 Classic were exceptional. It provides added backpressure for reliable cycling. Springfield SAINT Edge PDW: New 5.56 Pistol Is Just 18.75 Inches Long But there are a few key reasons why the .30-caliber is better suited for compact ARs. If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, it's perfect. But I will check out Sig's new Tread SE to see if I like it Yeah. In our view, the advertising campaign that preceded the Saints introduction underscored that the AR-15 is not just for the military. Spring loaded at rest, there was a platform on each side that released the sight instantaneously to its vertical position. Use of our website(s) implies understanding of our content disclaimer and privacy policy. Can't wait to find the price on this and see one in person . The gun is boringly reliable and is sized to be a near-constant companionat least anywhere youll tote a rucksack. This test was performed cold, one and done with no makeups. Stocky's Owner Don Bitz walks David Faubion through the company's new rifle stocks for 2023. That saint victor is 400 above msrp though. Comfortable to hold, the handguard offered the most versatility of our three rifles. The barrel is 16 inches and features a 1:8 twist. Maybe i'll sell the .308 if they ship me a new replacement and get an M1A instead, but i'm not exactly dying to give that money right back to them after this fiasco. Handguards are now modular platforms for lights, lasers, and sights, and ambidextrous fire controls are becoming more popular as well. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - First AR15 purchase; SIG M400 TREAD v. Springfield Saint Victor? I recently got the Tread 716i 308, MCX Rattler in 300 BLK and MPX K (completes my collection as I also have the MPX Copperhead and PCC). Our Team Said: When it comes to paying more for a rifle, or any firearm for that matter, its easy to check off a list of features to justify a higher price tag. Despite the unique internals, the MCXs controls are similar to a standard ARs, which helps because most shooters are familiar with the latters manual of arms. Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308. I'm ashamed I even own one let alone was considering buying the Saint. Sig isnt the most popular on the forum, but Ive never had an issue with my M400. I fired the Rattler off-hand from 10 and 15 yards with the earlier test loads and a few others, including Winchesters 150-grain Deer Season XP ammunition and Noslers 220-grain BTs. Before we get there, lets look at the concept of the personal-defense weapon (PDW). Pretty standard, yes, but the 5.56 rendition comes with Springfields forward blast diverter. The Tread was $799.00 and the Saint was $849.00. As our tests continued and the trigger broke in, we sometimes experienced only one stopping point before break. Our action test was designed to tell us more about trigger response and maneuverability than could be culled from a static benchrest session. Filter SIG MCX . The test shooter said he was on target inside the A-zone, but the trigger didnt respond. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. Thanks Bio. The Rattler is, essentially, as. This article on theSIG MCX Rattler is from the May/June 2018 issue of Tactical Life magazine. The Black Hills 60-grain V-Max rounds produced 0.8-inch-wide groups, and the 77-grain SIG Sauer rounds printed 0.9-inch-wide groups. With the desire for a more up-to-date AR-15, we went shopping and found that we didnt have to break the bank just get comfortable within a price range of about $900 to $1250 dollars. The gas block is pinned in place. FIRST LOOK: Sig Sauer MCX Rattler, the Worlds Smallest Rifle. Sure, they are a ton of fun at the range, teaching children how to shoot, and for use in defending the homestead, but consider them for hunting applications as well. Building on the popularity of the company's Rattler in 300 BLK, SIG Sauer introduced a new model chambered in 5.56 NATO for 2019. . According to the Sig Rep on ARFCOM: "6.75"/LVAW barrel was/is not made to be fired unsuppressed. On a full-size rifle or carbine, I think the relieved magazine well of the Saint Edge looks a bit small, but on this build it looks just right. Support gear used:***Splatterburst Targetshttps://amzn.to/2Kera7g***Peltor Sport RangeGuard Hearing Protectionhttps://amzn.to/2LsLUbXThe Springfield XDM Elit. As a result of this solicitation, SIG Sauer designed the MCX Rattler, and Maxim Defense came out with the PDX. The SCAR 15P is chambered for 5.56 NATO and, with its 7.5-inch barrel, is the most compact SCAR to date. Honey badger .300bo 5. As far as stabilization, it features the fairly standard SB Tactical SBA3 brace. Bob Meinert, FN Marketing Director, introduces FN's first commercial pistol suppressor, the FN Rush 9Ti. Compared to most everything else on the market, the 10.5-inch barrel (1:7 twist) pistol is an absolute Cadillac. The civilian version of the U.S. Army's new XM7 rifle. Compare specifications of Sig Sauer SIGMCX Rattler 300 AAC Blackout PMCX-300B-5B-TAP-PSB and Springfield Saint Victor Pistol 300 AAC Blackout STV909300B. The top rail was not really functional as a connection point, but it provided venting. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. The old-fashioned buttpad didnt bother us because it was properly fit, but wed definitely change out the grip. Is there anything sweeter than these mighty mites? The new 9mm suppressor can mount easily to any pistol barrel threaded x28 inches and doesn't compromise on sound suppression, gas blowback or recoil. Instead of a GI-pattern charging handle, the PDW sports Springfields midsize charging handle, which is substantially larger than the GI model. Suppressed though, that Saint Pistol is terrific. It was too short. Instead of being located at 3 oclock and 9 oclock, additional Keymod holes were located in a line upon the surface area that angled upward to the top rail (10 oclock and 2 oclock). One answer would be to take advantage of the latest technology in terms of manufacturing, helpful features and improved ammunition. Certainly, you get all the nimbleness and convenience of the configuration in 5.56. and at a gun show I saw the Sig Cross bolt rifle . Because I knew the velocity would be lacking, most of my chronographing was done with 5.56 NATO ammo, which runs a bit hotter. But we loved the buttpad and the overall contour of the stock. SIG MCX Rattler - Xtreme Guns & Ammo The MCX can be switched from 5.56mm NATO to 300 Blackout and back again, and users can easily install new barrels, handguards and stocks as needed. This removed any slack between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. This gun has a picatinny rail system for accessories, a six-position collapsible stock, a flash suppressor and a single-stage trigger. and the had the CZ Parrot checkmate 9mm $3,299. M400 tread or Springfield saint victor : r/ar15 - reddit This website contains many older reviews. Now we've got Springfield's PDW in a similarly sized envelope, namely albeit chambered in 5.56 NATO. I think I've driven myself mad with comparing the pros and cons. Upon an audible start signal, the shooter raised the carbine from low ready (about a 30-degree angle to the horizon), switched off the safety, and engaged each target with only one round before moving on. I took the Saint victor home and that's all it wrote for me . Springfield currently doesnt have any plans for a version in .300 AAC Blackout, but (hint hint) it would be a very smart move, as the .300 BLK performs much better out of short barrels than the 5.56. It's basically a bcm with the Saint logo on it. Our Team Said: The CMMG Mk4T showed extremely good balance. It opened up at about 3 inches and penetrated 12.7 inches, retaining 192.8 grains of its original bullet weight. Now, we all know stripped down versions just aren't going to cut it, so after adding a Trijicon MRO, SIG SRD 762 QD can, a Magpul vertical grip, a Parker Mountain Machines BCD, and don't forget a fully-loaded magazine of 220 grain subsonic rounds, we have ourselves a stout 9.4 pound setup. Pushing the SIG Sauer 77-grain OTM rounds to an average velocity of 2440 fps, the SIG Sauer ammunition, marked Match Grade Rifle, was still nevertheless well below the 2750 fps printed on the box. JavaScript is disabled. To get started, click the link below to visit mymagnow.com and learn how to access your digital magazine. Shooting the Black Hills 60-grain V-Max 223 ammunition, we were rewarded with five-shot groups that measured an average of just 0.6 inch across. Top 300 Blackout Pistol Options For Every Budget - Gun Digest Will it perform at greater distances? These two hunting loads made perfect little holes and passed through their blocks without expanding. Instead, its plenty accurate for its intended purpose. Don't wrestle with pigs, don't argue with idiots. AC63A5C8-2987-40EB-B654-CFB78764D21B_1530751250330.jpeg. Elwood Shelton is an online content developer for Gun Digest. But thats what your 20-inch barreled baby is for, right? SIG MCX Rattler SBR . I dont own any Springfield armory but it seems they do one dumbass thing on every gun they build, but different every time. SIG Rattler: Why the MCX Is the Perfect 300 Blackout PDW Solution WATCH: SIG Sauer MCX Rattler 5.56 NATO - An Official Journal Of The NRA To find out what it was like to operate these guns at speed, we visited the Impact Zone Range in Hempstead, Texas for some timed close-quarters fire. Springfield Armory Saint vs Sig Sauer M400 Tread . I would deploy this as a dedicated entry rifle in a heartbeat. SIG MCX Virtus & SIG MCX Rattler Rifles | SIG SAUER I would use the 110-grain Barnes TAC-TX load and never feel undergunned. Its also rated for rounds up to the .300 Winchester Magnum, so it wont have issues with higher-pressure 300 Blackout loads. Im a lefty so the gas hits me right in the face. For more information, please see our Our best-of-test group measured 0.4 inch across. This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY - SAINT 16" 5.56 BRAVO CO MLOK HANDGUARD. Featuring a 5.5" PDW barrel, the MCX platform has never been more compact or accessible. And I also used a LaRue Tactical offset mount to install a SureFire M312 Vampire Scout, which produces white and IR light. The only upgrade we spied was a relief in the takedown pin that helps keep the punch, or bullet tip, from sliding off under pressure. Targets left and center showed four A-zone hits, but one shot on each target was outside of the A-zone. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Saint Edge in .300 blackout? | The Armory Life Forum Barrels with twist rates of 1:8 inches and even 1:7 inches have replaced the original-issue lands and grooves that spun the bullets at a rate of 1:9. Gun Review: SIG SAUER MCX Rattler SBR - The Truth About Guns Has anyone actually tried the omega 9k on the rattler? How the Springfield Saint Compares to Other AR-15 - The Shooter's Log They are dead to me. The pistol is supplied with flip-up front and rear sights that sit relatively tall when folded and dont take up much rail space. At first glance, I thought the PDW was ridiculous in both appearance and performance. We think this made the trigger a little more user friendly in that there seemed to be more time for the shooter to completely refine a shot. In 2017, the U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) issued a Request For Information, basically asking someone to design a .300 Blackout PDW top end for them that a soldier could slap onto a standard M4 lower to create a concealable AR-based PDW. It also directs sound and blast forward, away from the shooter and provides some flash reduction. Now with the updated SAINT Edge PDW goes further, by going smaller. Saint Victor .308 competition | The Armory Life Forum This gun was designed from the ground up to be as discrete as possible while retaining all the capabilities of the MCX. SAINT ARs come in a range of sizes and calibers. You have entered an incorrect email address! The trigger is Springfields flat trigger, first introduced on the Saint Victor line. Life has a melody. Camp Guns: Sometimes Perfect, Other Times Not But Often Essential! Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308 - M4Carbine.net In addition to all that, for the features you get on this pistol, it is priced very reasonably. With the provided 20-round Magpul PMAG in place, the PDW weighs 5 pounds, 10 ounces. New Shooters Guide: What Is a Pistol Caliber Carbine? I fired the PDW at both an indoor and outdoor range on a cloudy day. No. That's a $1000 dollar rifle and a good deal at that but you're getting gouged pretty bad at 1400. Barnes 110-grain TAC-TX ammo was the most consistently accurate of the supersonics, with a group right at 0.75 inches. I put a ton of ammunition through this rifle, and everything workedtypical of the MCX series. With regard to accuracy, I wasnt just worried that a 5.5-inch barrel, which sports just 3.25-inches of rifling, would shoot minute of bucket, I was worried there wouldnt be enough spin to stabilize heavy bullets out to 100 yards. This round was designed to offer terminal ballistics similar to the AKs 7.62x39mm while still being compatible with AR-style rifles, requiring only a barrel change. OK, so they want in sending rounds waaaay downrange. The selector switch is bilateral and works just fine. All Rights Reserved. Thank you for that information, I really needed to know that. The Judge has been promoted! Apr 24, 2017 For a firearm chambered in a rifle caliber, that is shockingly short, especially when you consider the first 2.26 inches or so is the chamber. However, if youre shooting supersonic, its right on target. SIG P320 TACOPS vs Springfield XDM Elite 4.5 Tactical With the specs they listed, the barrel couldnt be much more than 6 inches, and it had to havethe ability to swap between the specd .300 BLK top end and one chambered in 5.56. I would go with the sig. The Rattler has a one in five twist rate. When I saw it, I wanted to hate it, specifically for what it isnt. Featured one of the most consistent triggers weve tried and costly ambidextrous controls. If we were to describe the bolt lock/release assembly as a seesaw, the typical lower end could be seen as being constructed without the seat. I own and have experience in small arms and shotguns, so this will be an entry level AR for me. The stripped-down SBR version of the Rattler weighs in at 5.7 pounds. Pistol: Semi-Auto. MSRP: $1,100; springfield-armory.com. Knock off mp5 in 9mm I had a mpx pistol 3yrs ago and while funseems about 100% pointless knowing todays ballistic capabilities of the 556 &300. blbennett1288 Rivet. You get what you pay for, in this case a pistol loaded with the companys high-performance custom parts and extras you wont find on economy models. To this end, the Protector boasts Wilsons excellent M2 two-state TTU trigger, factory set to between 4.5 to 5 pounds. 9mm this thing is a work of art and insanely smooth as silk , it shoots its self ..LOL. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Gun Tests has been independently reviewing firearms since 1989. As a result, the American Tactical recently announced the company will offer two new bolt-action rifle systems from Black Creek Labs. It uses a specialized upper receiver that is designed to be as compact as possible. If the general shape of Springfields PDW looks a little familiar to you, theres a reason for that. But I would take the Sig over the Springfield every day of the week, and twice on Sundays. Ben Voss FN Product Manager talks about the new FN SCAR 15P ultra-compact rifle-caliber pistol at SHOT Show 2023. Built with a premium nickel boron coated trigger, forged carrier, enhanced Melonite coated carrier group and a pinned gas block, every rifle is built for ultimate reliability. Would I want to get shot with it at 200 yards? As to the tale of the tape, the gun has a 10.5-inch cold hammer-forged barrel (1:7 twist) and comes in at a very agile 5.8 pounds. This rifle also features a free float M-LOK handguard, ambidextrous controls and a rotating bolt system.
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